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events:conf:2022-04-02 [2022-04-02 22:06]
ywang 		events:conf:2022-04-02 [2023-01-17 17:24] (current)
ywang old revision restored (2022-08-07 20:45)
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 ===== Timetable system ===== ===== Timetable system =====
-  * The [[dev:lines:timetable_plan|timetable system proposal]] was brought up again, as in the previous conference.+(notes by @ywang) 
 +  * The [[dev:proposals:timetable_plan|timetable system proposal]] was brought up again, as in the previous conference.
   * dario23 requested a user-friendly API for the timetable system.   * dario23 requested a user-friendly API for the timetable system.
   * gpcf noted that a timetable system could make it easier to create information systems.   * gpcf noted that a timetable system could make it easier to create information systems.
Line 23: Line 24:
   * gpcf could start working on the timetable system.   * gpcf could start working on the timetable system.
  
 +(notes by @blockhead)
 +
 +dario23: A more noob-friendly timetable system.
 +  * orwell: Is it necessary? Basic ATC should be useable for this purpose.
 +  * dario23: To bring a proposal for additional track type that makes other tasks easier.
 +
 +orwell: Timetable 
 +  * Recording based entirely on relative times. The first train arrives, it sets a time. No need to program a railway time to start the timetable on.
 +  * gpcf: There should be editing features for after the timetable is recorded.
 +  * orwell: GUI with Tabs, one tab per line
 +    * Blockhead: Instead of headers, maybe a selection list
 +    * Blockhead: Use luk3yx.gitlab.io/minetest-formspec-editor to help drafting
 +  * gpcf: Provision built in for sub-train/train splitting system
 +    * orwell: Do it like SimSig where there are 'split train into new timetable id' and 'wait for a train to join' commands.
 +  * gpcf: Fitting regular shunting into a schedule for, for example, through-coaches
 +    * Maverick2797: Can the timetable simply send a LuaATC interrupt.
 +
 +(notes by @dario23, via @Blockhead)
 +Dario23 proposed a new track with the following specifications:
 +
 +  * give infos to stations
 +  * give infos to train
 +  * more easy
 +  * more user-friendly interface
 +  * track takes infos from train and give them to stations about traffic, delay ecc…
 +  * make the train find a way to reduce the delay
 +  * track should be before station/stop rail
 +  * this track IS connected to the station stop rail like a tcb
 +  * train does not stop at this track
 +  * if train hasn’t delay can let pass through
 +
 +(back to notes from @Blockhead)
 +Describing dario's proposal in my own words
 +  * Tracks that go before the station/stop rail.  It is connected on a 1-1 basis like a TCB. that give information to the trains such as:
 +      * Which station is next, how long the stop is for
 +      * Ways to catch up if timetable is too far behind.
 +        * For example, do not turn ARS off so the train will not be late departing the station.
 +        * Brake harder
 +        * Less time on the doors
 +        * Accelerate faster
 +        *  orwell: Setting a quite low minimum stop time would naturally have this type of effect in his proposal
 +
 +
 +orwell: Seeing that there was not really any opposition to the proposal any more, made a request for someone to step forward and work on the timetable system
 +because he has not got the time. Some sign of commitment from gpcf but nobody else.
 ===== The route_prog_rework branch ===== ===== The route_prog_rework branch =====
 +(mixed notes by @ywang and @Blockhead)
   * Orwell is working on the ''route_prog_rework'' branch. The goal of the branch is to improve the experience of route programming.   * Orwell is working on the ''route_prog_rework'' branch. The goal of the branch is to improve the experience of route programming.
   * Ideally, the user only needs to specify the starting and ending point of the route.   * Ideally, the user only needs to specify the starting and ending point of the route.
   * The idea is to reduce problems caused by erroneous route programming.   * The idea is to reduce problems caused by erroneous route programming.
-  * Blockhead pointed out that pathfinding may become a problem for complicated junctions. +  * Blockhead pointed out that pathfinding may become a problem for complicated junctions. The solution suggested by Blockhead and Maverick2797 is to mark a 'waypoint' or point that the route must travel through. This would work like dragging a specific point on the route suggested by Google Maps. 
-  * Maverick2797 requested for a way to edit routes. +  * Maverick2797 (and many others previously) requested for a way to edit routes instead of making them again from scratch. 
-  * The ''advtrains_itrainmap'' mod could be revived.+ 
 +===== Dispatcher/signalbox view ===== 
 +(notes by @ywang and @Blockhead) 
 +  * The ''advtrains_itrainmap'' mod could be revived, but orwell would not like to see it return in its previous form. 
 +  * itrainmap ran very slowly for larger areas.
   * orwell said that it would be interesting to have actual working signalboxes.   * orwell said that it would be interesting to have actual working signalboxes.
 +    * He proposed that there should be a view like a train dispatcher can see, similar to SimSig or a physical train control board based on relays. The exact method for constructing these was not explained in detail.
  
-===== Bugtracker =====+===== Bugtracker, source repository, contributions ===== 
 +(notes by @ywang)
   * Hemiptera is currently problematic because of spamming. It is also blocked by certain email providers.   * Hemiptera is currently problematic because of spamming. It is also blocked by certain email providers.
   * gpcf: continuing the work on Hemiptera is mainly reinventing the wheel.   * gpcf: continuing the work on Hemiptera is mainly reinventing the wheel.
Line 45: Line 98:
   * This topic may need to be discussed in the future.   * This topic may need to be discussed in the future.
  
 +(notes by @Blockhead)
 +A few systems were discussed, mostly for what could replace hemiptera, but source control and contribution also inevitably came up.
 +  * Hemiptera
 +    * Anonymous by design, but it gets confusing
 +      * Has a profile picture system, maybe also pseudonyms? Too hard to come up with something 
 +    * Already in place
 +    * Suggested by Blockhead that it could continue to be worked on.
 +    * gpcf: If it has to be reworked, do these:
 +      * Web submission form (current one is totally broken)
 +      * Admin tools: Delete spam etc.
 +      * However, he sees this as more like reinventing the wheel.
 +* SourceHut
 +    * No login
 +    * More like a TODO-tracker.
 +    * Seemed to require manual filing of issues by developers.
 +* Notabug or self-hosted gitea
 +  * Can be hooked to run SourceHut CI.
 +  * Does require an account. However, when polled, most of us said we already had an account at NotABug.
 +  * Allows PRs which might aid contributions.
 +  * Does not work inside the 'git via email' workflow that is the preferred method for project maintainers so far.
 +  * Could have reliability problems given its history.
 +
 +orwell would like to keep the sourcehut mailing lists in any case as a reliable point of contact.
 +
 +Among source repositories, although it was clear that there are many mirrors, the consensus was to keep bananach.space as the authoritative repository, under gpcf's control rather than a third party. No clear consensus emerged on what to do about improving bugtracking or making contributing easier.
 +
 +gpcf: For push access to bananach.space, email him. Contributors can be given push access to only specific branches and only a few have access to master.
 ===== Development branch ===== ===== Development branch =====
-  * Maverick2797 suggested creating a ''dev'' branch for testing and then merging it into the master branch.+(notes by @ywang) 
 +  * Blockhead suggested and Maverick2797 seconded suggested creating a ''dev'' branch for testing and then merging it into the master branch.
   * gpcf: more feature branches are needed.   * gpcf: more feature branches are needed.
   * Blockhead: The dev and master branch differ in that the dev branch cannot be broken. It would be nice to be able to apply patches to the development branch.   * Blockhead: The dev and master branch differ in that the dev branch cannot be broken. It would be nice to be able to apply patches to the development branch.
Line 55: Line 136:
   * Blockhead: there is a lack of tests.   * Blockhead: there is a lack of tests.
  
 +(notes by @Blockhead)
 +Proposal from Blockhead to add a 'dev' branch that is ahead of or equal to master where we can merge without worrying about whether something is broken and that broken state has gone into master.
 +    - Advantage: Merge patches faster without worrying about breakage.
 +    - Advantage: Merge several feature branches before going to master
 +    - Disadvantage: Bureaucracy, doesn't fit our existing workflow.
 +
 +gpcf: Master is not expected to be unbroken. Only releases. Adding this branch would not help us but instead overcomplicate the existing workflow.
 +
 +ywang: realistically, a dev branch would only be useful for smaller patches. Feature branches are generally stable enough when they are merged, and minor issues in the master branch can be fixed later. The master branch should not be expected to be stable, but it should at least be usable (i.e. without severe bugs).
 +
 +56independent: would prefer master to be unbroken, but can agree it is not necessary. 56independent said he was running master on his server but could move to stable release.
 +
 +Blockhead, gpcf: Server owners should not be running master unless they are prepared to beta test advtrains. Linuxforks is the main public test server.
 +
 +orwell concludes: Probably more work than benefit. The project does not move fast enough to warrant it.  Our current methodology works. Feature branches work well for our purposes so far.
 ===== Train HUD and controls ===== ===== Train HUD and controls =====
 +(notes by @ywang and @Blockhead)
   * orwell: remap the inventory button?   * orwell: remap the inventory button?
 +    * Potentially unify onboard computer with other controls.
 +      * Blockhead (in retrospect only): The formspec would be getting quite huge, which is not small-screen friendly.
   * ywang thought about changing the controls, but some things may need to be improved.   * ywang thought about changing the controls, but some things may need to be improved.
  
 ===== Livery system ===== ===== Livery system =====
 +(notes by @ywang)
   * Blockhead: "wagon transition": similar to "aliases" that convert certain wagons to other types.   * Blockhead: "wagon transition": similar to "aliases" that convert certain wagons to other types.
   * This appears to be implemented by both gpcf and Blockhead.   * This appears to be implemented by both gpcf and Blockhead.
   * gpcf: There could be a conference on the livery system   * gpcf: There could be a conference on the livery system
  
-===== Organization ===== +===== Organizing the Next Meeting ===== 
-  * gpcf: There should be smaller conferences for those interested in only certain parts of the project.+(notes by @Blockhead and @gpcf) 
 +  * gpcf: There should be smaller conferences for those interested in only certain parts of the project, such as livery, timetabling or i18n. 
 +    * Blockhead: Volunteered to lead a livery conference and prepare a presentation for that. 
 +    * dario23: Expressed interest in an Italian localisation. Was asking to also be prepared to maintain it 
 +    * ywang: Merged French translation recently. 
 +  * Blockhead: We should try to use the wiki and engage with proposals more frequently between conferences. 
 +(notes by @dario23) 
 +  * dario23: Exposed the implementation of the current website with various add-ons 
 +===== After-discussion ===== 
 +(notes by @Blockhead) 
 +  * ywang: Requested people to read and give feedback on his documentation branch, which has gotten quite substantial. 
 +  * Blockhead: Need to start working on the ATC video... 
 +  * Blockhead: Can we really be using MBB's stuff? Most of it isn't licensed. Also he has renamed to mbruchert on GitHub. 
 +    * Various people suggested various licenses from WTFPL to LGPL and CC, but nothing certain. 
 +    * Repositories have no licence statements. 
 +    * orwell: Clearly he doesn't mind us using them because he isn't suing. 
 +      * Blockhead (only in retrospect): Yes, and he also has merged some changes recently. 
 + 
 +===== Jitsi Meeting Chat Log ===== 
 +<code> 
 +erstazi 
 +erstazi sagt:hi Marnack  
 +22:05 
 +Marnack 
 +Marnack sagt:hi  
 +Marnack sagt:I've read it  
 +22:07 
 +erstazi 
 +erstazi sagt: 
 +http://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=dev:lines:timetable_plan 
 +  
 +22:07 
 +orwell 
 +Ich sage: 
 +http://advtrains.de/wiki/doku.php?id=dev:lines:timetable_plan 
 +  
 +22:07 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:standard station track and timetable-specific station track  
 +Maverick2797 sagt:relative times vs absolute times?  
 +Maverick2797 sagt:how about a scrollable list that opens up into a closeable tab?  
 +Maverick2797 sagt: 
 +https://luk3yx.gitlab.io/minetest-formspec-editor/ 
 +  
 +Maverick2797 sagt:this one?  
 +22:25 
 +Marnack 
 +Marnack sagt:Yes I've tried that formspec tool.  It's  pretty good.  
 +22:26 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:it doesn't have the scroll_container etc, but it's still good for basic formspecs  
 +22:26 
 +Fellow Jitster 
 +Fellow Jitster sagt:gtg good day  
 +22:29 
 +Blockhead 
 +Blockhead sagt:kthxbai  
 +22:29 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 sagt:ciao  
 +22:29 
 +Fellow Jitster 
 +Fellow Jitster sagt:dario we talk tomorrow  
 +Fellow Jitster sagt:not now  
 +22:29 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:I've tried to do a through-coach  system wholly in LuaATC, but it'd be very hard to schedule it imo  
 +22:32 
 +Marnack 
 +Marnack sagt:Could the taimetable simply trigger that Lua once it arrives?  
 +22:33 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:event = {type="timetable", timetable=true, timetable_id="id"}  
 +22:34 
 +Blockhead 
 +Blockhead sagt:now there's two of them  
 +22:38 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:the trouble is that it's easier to stop a train with the E-Brake when there's lag than it is to slow it normally  
 +22:43 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 sagt:NEW TRACK: 
 + 
 +FUNCTIONS: 
 + 
 +- give infos to stations 
 + 
 +- give infos to train 
 + 
 +- more easy 
 + 
 +- more user-friendly interface 
 + 
 +- track takes infos from train and give them to stations about traffic, delay ecc… 
 + 
 +- make the train find a way to reduce the delay 
 + 
 +- track should be before station/stop rail 
 + 
 +- this track IS connected to the station stop rail like a tcb 
 + 
 +- train does not stop at this track 
 + 
 +- if train hasn’t delay can let pass through  
 +22:44 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:having a way to edit the route after it's been saved would be good to avoid having to completely delete and redo a route if you miss something  
 +Maverick2797 sagt:setting waypoints for the route  
 +Maverick2797 sagt:Signal boxes: would that require a custom trackplan texture per signal box though?  
 +22:54 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:That could be dynamically generated. MT has a function to render PNG afaik.  
 +22:54 
 +Blockhead 
 +Blockhead sagt:Y. Wang is right I think  
 +Blockhead sagt: 
 +https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/11498 
 +  
 +22:59 
 +erstazi 
 +erstazi sagt:gtg  
 +23:04 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 sagt:maybe just adding like here "insert a name"?  
 +23:05 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:putting the name in the email body makes it easier to impersonate people though  
 +23:06 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:i generally send patches straight from the command line  
 +Maverick2797 sagt:account creation vs greater contributor reach and easier patch submission  
 +23:14 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:Sorry i'm late. I should have set an alarm 0_0  
 +23:16 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:a dev branch could be where branches are merged and beta-tested before being merged into master for release  
 +Maverick2797 sagt:but making sure that different features play well together should also be important  
 +23:23 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:I personally use bleeding-edge and would like to see it continue being stable.  
 +56i sagt:But i can migrate to release if needed  
 +23:33 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 sagt:if i had access to git banananach i could contribute in certain things  
 +23:35 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:We should have had this 17:00+Z /hj  
 +56i sagt:shift+o ?  
 +23:37 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:@56i, international community. This was the best match for everyone. It's 0537 for me  
 +23:37 
 +Blockhead 
 +Blockhead sagt:the meeting time was decided by consensus at the poll site  
 +23:37 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:Ah, forgot pushing Au back was a bad idea  
 +56i sagt:Just wondering, are you getting an early start or a late sleep?  
 +23:38 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:early  
 +23:39 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:56  
 +Y. Wang sagt:56i: depends on your timezone.  
 +23:39 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:For me, here, BST, 22:39. I sleep at 23:00+ (sometime 01:00)  
 +56i sagt:But i can understand GCPF's pain.  
 +23:39 
 +Blockhead 
 +Blockhead sagt:early start from me  
 +23:40 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:patches on the mailing list is easy for everyone who doesn't need access to the core advtrains git  
 +23:41 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:^ The atcjit branch started as a set of patches.  
 +23:41 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:Should i make a simple english translation which simplifies technical terms and phrases to make it easier for noobs and non-natives?  
 +23:43 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:No  
 +Y. Wang sagt:"Simple English" does not have its own language code in MT  
 +23:43 
 +Blockhead 
 +Blockhead sagt:minetest doesn't support such a translation anyway  
 +23:43 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:i didn't think there was much that wasn't already in "simple english"  
 +23:43 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:As in Wikipedia SE  
 +23:44 
 +Marnack 
 +Marnack sagt:Is there any interest in eliminating AdvTrains' dependency on MT Game (default, dye, etc.)?  
 +23:44 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:56i: MT doesn't support that. Also we have a manual  
 +23:44 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:👍  
 +23:44 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:is it good to have diversity in tutorials? My interlocking tutorial is more regimental then others. Does it inspire fracturing or makes Advtrains easier to learn?  
 +23:46 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:56i: I don't oppose that  
 +23:47 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:I'll make some on LuaATC, ATC, and other aspects  
 +56i sagt:Maybe even development  
 +23:49 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:56i: patches are welcome  
 +23:49 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:*On my own server wiki  
 +56i sagt:Y. Wang: Just wondering, what's your timezone?  
 +23:52 
 +Y. Wang 
 +Y. Wang sagt:56i: UTC+2  
 +23:52 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:@dario23 I'd be willing to help with that if you want  
 +23:53 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 sagt:ok no problem  
 +23:53 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:gpcf: I don't oppose that  
 +23:53 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 
 +W3RQ01 - dario23 sagt:i'll start the site and some skins  
 +23:53 
 +Marnack 
 +Marnack sagt:bye  
 +23:53 
 +Maverick2797 
 +Maverick2797 sagt:time to go for my morning run 😛  
 +Maverick2797 sagt:the manual is good as a reference but it's probably a bit long for a tutorial  
 +23:54 
 +56i 
 +56i sagt:Time to go for my daily loss of conscious! 😛  
 +56i sagt:I'll have to record my server's lines 
 +</code>
events/conf/2022-04-02.1648937201.txt.gz · Last modified: 2022-04-02 22:06 by ywang

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